Michelin X-ices are awesome.

"Nymphicus Hollandicus" (nymhicus-hollandicus) 01/04/2018 at 08:02 • Filed to: Winter

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This past fall I finally had the money to buy a set of winters for my 2012 Hyundai Elantra and boy have I been glad. BJ’s was running a pretty good deal where you got $80 off a set of Michelin tires as well as free installation so it only cost me about $75 per tire. I also got a set of steelies for cheap too. I like the look, my dad told me my car looks like a police special. On dry roads these drive better than my 3-season Linglongs (which are surprisingly good for chinese tires). I downsized from 215/45r17 to 195/65r15 so that probably has something to do with it. In fact, I may get rid of the OEM wheels (I think they’re ugly) and get 16 inch wheels from the regular GLS.

As many of you know the Northeast is getting murdered by a blizzard and I have off from work today so I did the logical thing, go out and drive for a bit. These transformed my car, as long as I don’t decide to do something stupid these tires just grip and grip in deep snow which is great. I saw Jeeps and Subarus sliding everywhere while my “little” Hyundai just drove like it was nothing. A month ago my friend’s GPS accidentally took me up a narrow snow covered hill while hiking in the catskills and the Hyundai still drove up without a problem.

I’m just astounded... Now whenever it snows I’m so tempted to go out and have some fun with my car. As long as I live where it snows I’m most likely going to have a set of winter tires regardless if I have a small car or a Subaru. Maybe if All-Weather tires become better I’ll just settle for those if I live somewhere it doesn’t get hot.

Seriously though, tires do make a real difference.

Stapleface > Nymphicus Hollandicus 01/04/2018 at 08:28

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Winter tires really do transform a vehicle. I didn’t install my winters on my Civic this year and kind of regret that now.

I had some General Altimax’s on my Crosstrek, and you just couldn’t get that thing stuck no matter what you did.

Side note, had a Subaru pulling in to a convenience store this morning who was obviously way too confident with his car. He almost missed the 40 foot wide entrance because he of course was going too fast on what was most likely shitty all seasons.

That’s the main problem with driving in the winter. For every one of us who isn’t an imbecile behind the wheel, there are 5 that are.

CalzoneGolem > Nymphicus Hollandicus 01/04/2018 at 08:42

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No pictures? I love the steel wheel look.

shop-teacher > Nymphicus Hollandicus 01/04/2018 at 08:58

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Sounds about right. Give us a pic!

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Nymphicus Hollandicus 01/04/2018 at 09:05

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They really are good. My brother in law has then on his 02 Jetta. They grip so well that he basically can’t do an e brake slide anymore. Although I think he’s just not trying hard enough lol.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Stapleface 01/04/2018 at 09:07

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There will always be those people that think AWD helps you brake and steer. It does not.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Nymphicus Hollandicus 01/04/2018 at 09:08

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We ended up getting Steelers on the Fit for our General Altimax Arctics. Yeah I don’t mind the look either.

CalzoneGolem > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/04/2018 at 09:19

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Aww yiss!

Nymphicus Hollandicus > CalzoneGolem 01/04/2018 at 09:21

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I’m too lazy to take a picture.

Nymphicus Hollandicus > shop-teacher 01/04/2018 at 09:21

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Nah too lazy

Nymphicus Hollandicus > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/04/2018 at 09:22

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He absolutely isn’t, I tried doing one and the rear basically came around. I did this going pretty slow too.

CalzoneGolem > Nymphicus Hollandicus 01/04/2018 at 09:22

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I’m taking my stars back!

Nymphicus Hollandicus > CalzoneGolem 01/04/2018 at 09:24

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shop-teacher > Nymphicus Hollandicus 01/04/2018 at 09:46

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Boooooooo!!!!!!!

BigBlock440 > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/04/2018 at 10:25

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There will always be those people who think AWD doesn’t help you brake or turn. It does, depending on system. Mechanically locking all 4 corners, or even two axles, keeps one set of tires from braking loose, and engine braking will be applied to both axles instead of just one.

*if you know how to use the power

Textured Soy Protein > Nymphicus Hollandicus 01/04/2018 at 10:30

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Most winter tires are going to be noticeably better than all-seasons.

There are a now several all-weather options that are varying degrees of sporty. From most to least similar to winter tires, there are:

Nokian WRG3
Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady
Vredestein Quatrac 5
Michelin CrossClimate+

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > BigBlock440 01/04/2018 at 10:54

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But that engine braking. An yeah it’ll help you steer if you know how to steer with throlle. But 99% of people can’t do either of those things. Especially since they are driving automatic cars with open diffs on both axels.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Nymphicus Hollandicus 01/04/2018 at 11:37

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We had X-ices on my mom’s old Legacy 3.6r and my dad and I both found them to be rather disappointing in actual snow accumulation. They were OK as winter tires but left a lot to be desired in the snow.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/04/2018 at 11:46

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I drove my wife’s Fit to work today, also with steelies and altimax arctics. Love these cars!

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > BigBlock440 01/04/2018 at 11:59

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It can, under certain circumstances, help you turn. It will never help you stop.

Locking the axles will not help you turn, if anything it will cause you to lose turning grip as, by default, you are forcing one of the 2 wheels to slip regardless of the current level of grip. A good AWD system with LSD or a good TC/SC combo will allow both tires to turn at the correct speeds maintain grip on all 4 tires(but not necessarily power). A really good AWD system with torque vectoring (like Acura’s SH-AWD or the BMW’s DPC) will actually overspeed the outside tire allowing both grip and power to be applied to all 4 tires.

There is however, no combo of 4/AWD, LSDs, T/C, S/C, lockers or any drivetrain devices that will cause you to stop faster. Stopping faster in shitty conditions is only your brakes, tires, and ABS. If anything 4/AWD will cause you to take(marginally) longer to stop in any conditions vs a 2WD version of the same vehicle, as the 2WD version will be lighter overall and have less rotating mass to deal with.

BigBlock440 > e36Jeff now drives a ZHP 01/04/2018 at 12:04

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If you’ve got a mechanical center diff, it’ll work like ABS keeping the tires from slipping as all the wheels have to turn at the same speed. You won’t be able to have one tire or one axle locked up while the other is still turning. I’ve used this trick before in slippery conditions with a blown brake line. It works.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig 01/04/2018 at 12:26

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It’s a perfect car for a 3 person family. A mini minivan.

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > BigBlock440 01/04/2018 at 12:38

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Sure, if you are engine braking. But engine braking is never as effective as actually using the brakes. The only reason people think engine braking is more effective is bad weather is because engine braking forces you to start slowing down much farther out than normal, because it’s not really all that good a slowing a vehicle when compared to actual brakes. But in bad weather you should be doing that anyway regardless of how you are slowing down. When you need to stop quickly, the brakes are still the better option.

And a mechanical center diff won’t prevent the wheels from turning at different speeds. If it’s a locker, it will prevent the input shaft on the front and rear diff from moving at different speeds, but if the axles themselves aren’t locked the tires will be free to move at different speeds. If they are locked, they will not move at different speeds, but can still slip in unison if the engine braking load is in excess of current traction available(but I think you’d have to be on sheet ice to do that as the engine does not supply much braking force). If it’s an LSD it will allow the axles to turn at different speeds, but will limit how much differential there can be between axle speeds. Also, not all LSD’s work under engine braking loads, a 1-way clutch type will provide zero limiting factor between the axles and a 1.5-way will only supply some limiting factor(“some” defined as more than zero but less than what it does under engine load, the actual amount varies depending on construction).

tl;dr: engine braking can act like ABS so long as you have the correct equipment under you, ideally you’d want front, rear, and center 2-way LSDs, but it will never be as effective as using your brakes in the first place.

BigBlock440 > e36Jeff now drives a ZHP 01/04/2018 at 13:55

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No, not just engine braking, using the regular brake. I’ve done this. Had a brake line tear off, hit the brakes, front tires lock up, rear tires keep spinning, put it in 4WD, no more sliding, stopping power applied to all 4 wheels. Granted, it may only work with 4wd and not AWD, but one set of tires won’t spin with the other set locked up.

but can still slip in unison if the engine braking load is in excess of current traction available(but I think you’d have to be on sheet ice to do that as the engine does not supply much braking force).

Yes, if you’re not on ice, the tires that have more traction will prevent the tires with less from locking up, regardless of what braking method is being used.

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > BigBlock440 01/04/2018 at 14:03

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If you had a brake line tear off, unless you had dual master cylinders, you didn’t have brakes anymore. Any pressure applied to the brake system would just spew brake fluid out of the ripped hose. If you had dual master cylinders you would lose brakes on the entire axle that lost a line. The only exception would be if there was a hydraulic fuse, but I’m unaware of any cars that have that.

Either way, what you are describing would only work with full lockers or full 2/1.5-way LSDs, which are increasingly rare in vehicles today. And it still won’t be any better than using your brakes.

BigBlock440 > e36Jeff now drives a ZHP 01/04/2018 at 14:13

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Dual circuit brakes have been mandated since the 70's....

gmctavish needs more space > Nymphicus Hollandicus 01/04/2018 at 14:14

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It’s only snowed twice here, so I haven’t bothered switching from my all-seasons to my winters, I have X-Ices as well. I’m starting to wish I had, I like how they handle in the rain better than my all-seasons.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/04/2018 at 14:21

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Pretty much. Except with a pretty great chassis, manual transmission, and good fuel economy.

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > BigBlock440 01/04/2018 at 14:28

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I was unaware of that. I didn’t realize the master cylinder was split internally.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig 01/04/2018 at 14:53

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Oh I wish ours was manual. My wife can drive stick, but she would rather not

BigBlock440 > e36Jeff now drives a ZHP 01/23/2018 at 19:47

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https://jalopnik.com/heres-the-confusing-difference-between-braking-in-2wd-a-1822351916